
Our girls are badgered day in and out by multi-national companies to become fairer ad infinitum. And guys too are now targeted. Duskiness is hated and derided. Open any marriage columns in news-papers and you will find the requirement from would be brides: they have to be fair and slim and convent educated. It is passé to say that English-medium education is the most coveted education that one can provide to an Indian kid today. There are thousands of Spoken-English schools all over the land. In short, we have to become brown sahibs. All this when the British are turning to the curry for joy!

Here are some harrowing experiences:
a)Young man enters an up market restaurant in Kolkata, the guards ask him to leave. His faults? He wears slippers, is unshaven and the sin of all sins: he is dark. Luckily his girl-friend inside is dressed properly for the restaurant. She is fair and beautiful. She comes to the rescue of that young man, her future husband, and they leave the restaurant in bitterness. Black suited sahibs did not allow brown people in casuals. But while they come out they see a white woman in shorts, slippers and a T-shirt being welcomed in. Have you noticed something: hotel-staff speak only in English? And even the visitors go along with that. I am not speaking about those instances when there may be a language problem, but even when both the staff and the visitors have the same vernacular.
b)Same couple visits a chain-book store in Kolkata regularly. The owners run hotels also. Mr. M there is very polite and helpful. Natty fair lady in specs breathes fire on any Indian who comes with her purse into the shop. Fine. Natty lady hates guys with bags entering the shop. Leave your bags on the security desk. Fine. Only thing, whites enter with whatever they choose. And natty lady is pleased as punch. When complained, natty lady did not bother replying to such hoi polloi. The couple does not go there any more. Mr.M’s is sidelined because he is fat, dark and only a native. People have to ask for Bengali books in English there. Such are the levels of sophistication in our country.
c)A study facility for students by a Foreign Embassy in Kolkata. Yours truly and other blackie Indians have to be searched like animals before entry into the library. The guards are rude and the Indian staff at the reception hate talking in anything but English even with people who do not know the language. White nationals have no such checks. They come and go while we in our own country stand gaping. When complaints pour in, some Indian crony mumbles: it is all about security, you know. And if too much protests happen, then just get lost. So yours truly avoids the said library. How many places to avoid?
d)Old lady thrown out of a Tata bastion. She is not fair enough; she is just Indian; she is wearing slippers. Taj Mumbai is in India, but is it for Indians?
Alas! The shame of being a South East Asian and being condemned for being one by one’s sisters and brothers. I have had the same experience in Pakistan, Nepal and Dhaka. We equate beauty with skin-color.
I would say a very fair post...and no doubts it is nothing but the truth...
The fact that it is allowed without complaint is crazy. Try that in the USA and the company would get sued. Money is a big incentive to treat people fairly.
Pray then, what is racism?
& unless people like you protest, things will be like that...it is not an Indian only phenomena...
The reason why I use the pseudonym is because I choose to do so , you wud never know who I really am had I simply used a name like Prasad...by my name I want to protest the death of the net as a free place ...
the fair, the beautiful, the suave who are the rich and powerful
the ugly, dirty, the illiterate and the poor, powerless...
Unless we take stock of our own we can never change our nation’s lot...because we are a great nation amongst the fools there are wise men who can stomach criticism. Instead of criticizing others, we have to help ourselves...
The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.
The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as 'the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate.'
According to UN International Conventions, the term 'racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.'
Racism has existed throughout human history. It may be defined as the hatred of one person by another -- or the belief that another person is less than human -- because of skin color, language, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person. It has influenced wars, slavery, the formation of nations, and legal codes.
Don't apply the meaning of black and skin colour in western sociological context in our Indian context because here there is no place of hatred due to skin colour but caste. Hatred due to caste exists but hatred due to skin colour doesn't exist. So, don't write such useless things in Indian context. Are you trying to become India TV on Internet? If yes then its ok, you are free to write anything because no one would take you seriously.
Man, you are all worked up with all those references...but you missed the only point relevant...definitions are end products of human phenomena...language is fluid...so what you quoted is what at a certain point of time was the definition according to a group of Western lexicographers...but instead of focussing on one word, tell me do not women get tortured for giving birth to dark babies? I know a guy, about 13, who is not loved by his parents simply because he is dark, rather his sibling 10, is loved for the fairness. Due to the nature of my profession I get to hear a lot of these sad stories. ( Oh I forgot to tell you to refer to Jesperson, Walter Ong etc.) & who buys these products? Why do people want to be fair?
His mother was busy on his mobile phone and the American and the Indian boy were chatting interesting things and I was the single audience there. The American was a professional photographer and had come to India to visit north Indian temples and Himalayan region. He was visible lookin very much impressed with Indian culture and traditions. He was praising India, Indian people, Indian cities every thing.
At the same time, the young boy, whose father was NRI living in New York, was looking excited because he was going to take International flight to New York for the first time.
During the discussion, the boy was surprisingly abusing Indian people, talking badly about Indian roads, poverty and praising US cities culture. What we (me and the American guy) felt that the boy hated India and loved US. Finally the irritated American asked the boy in strong words - "WHO TOLD YOU ALL THESE STUPID THINGS , DON'T YOU HAVE RESPECT FOR YOUR OWN COUNTRY?" The boy answered - 'My father'. The American literally shouted - "YOU FATHER IS A BIG BULL-SHIT AND YOU ARE BULL-SHIT IN MAKING".
We Indians more abuse than love our Indianness thats what you are doing here by linking the fair-dark discussion in Indian context with RACISM... I won't say anything now.
as for what foreigners think of us does not matter, for they are unimportant...
as for what foreigners think of us does not matter, for they are unimportant...
& again I have mentioned only those of us in specific situations...
a) I ask the question, not provide an answer...I think we are partly racist, being casteist et al...
b) I love my people and being an Indian and feel hurt when I read about that lady at the Taj, be searched like a thief and when I read of a dusky woman writing to know how to be fair
c) My country is great and I care hoots for whether racism exists elsewhere, whether class structures exist elsewhere...we can reform and change ourselves...we can...not like where Prince comes from...
in the US people have to sue...here the awakening can come from within...
again if I have hurt anyone, it is only to show my concern for my own country and not to give a chance to foreigners to deride us...adios on this post
Lastly, i stand abashed...
looks like a p.w. botha worm planted in india.
@Rhapsodysinger-Well if you write the truth, you have to face a lot of criticism. People do not like horrifying truths, it’s human nature...not a good one though.
@manishkumar- The picture just tells we Indians cannot face the fact that we are BLACK. Can’t you understand even that, fat-head????
For Sumit- I believe all your definitions are copied from wikipedia, but may be you didn’t have the time to read the whole article. So i would advise you to pay attention to the first few lines written over there- ”Racism has many definitions, the most common and widely accepted being that members of one race consider themselves intrinsically superior to members of other races.”
The story you wrote about that American photographer may be true,but there’s one thing i should add. foreigners see India from one perspective:they live in luxurious hotels, travel by car and bla bla.They don’t have to face water crisis or power cuts or any of the millions of problems that an average Indian has to deal with.You can’t deny this.And Westerners would like us to be happy the way we are, so that we can never rise above them.
Finally i would say, racism is thriving in India(more and more demand for cosmetics like fair n lovely proves that) because of people like you Sumit.You would believe your country to be the best rather than take the trouble to identify the problems and solve them so that one day India really becomes the best. In this sense, Rhapsodysinger proves that he is a true patriot.
Pathetic country.
I have lived all my life in India. There is castism, there is communalism, but there is no racism. Such writing is unacceptable as it is malicious and false. BTW is the writer an Indian?
Australians mistreated aboriginals, the famed separation controversies...US the red indians and need I say more so don’t throw dirt on us...I have faith in my own people that those of us who tend to feel superior will change but as far as u guys on the right you need law suits etc. to change...
@swati
I myself faced these discriminations...not a word untrue...
Australians mistreated aboriginals, the famed separation controversies...US the red Indians and need I say more so don’t throw dirt on us...I have faith in my own people that those of us who tend to feel superior will change but as far as u guys on the right you need law suits etc. to change...
@swati
I myself faced these discriminations...not a word untrue...
close your eyes to truth...We all indians are so proud to be indians that we won’t even differentiate b/w good and bad just for the sake of saving our reputation as Indians...
I ask you all, you have called the author moron and I don’t know what, what...but is this the way you treat writers who write nothing but the truth...Just like Taslima was condemned in her own country...
Then why do we have all newspaper columns actually demanding ’FAIR’ Brides..maybe for you this isn’t racism, for you all this is just a beauty standard but even I call that racism! I am sure each one of us have faced it at one time or the another but i think you all are too coward to accept that and admit that the racist was none other than someone from your Indian brotherhood....
@ The author...
I am glad you took this up...Bravo!!!Let them condemn you, but remember where’re always a few who think, take action and can speak the truth...you are one of them.Kudos!
But on the other hand as I said those on the right are unimportant for they are throwing dirt...when they have so much to hide...
But all i say and believe is that we need to introspect...
what rhapsody singer let us knwo is nothing but the truth...
it’s not a race problem but a social problem...fuelled by skin colour, and money...
the basic funda is that indians distinguish people by how presentable they look...so if you are a dark skinned person you already are at -1...
and if you are not wering expensive looking clothes...thr goes your social reputation down the drain...
@sanyog
dude, i m a southie too...though everyone doesn’t advertise for fair gals...it’s taken as a minus or plus depending on the skin colour of the gal evryone...
if the gal is fair they r ready to cmpromise on the dowry reqs..and if shez dark then the askin rate goes up...
@Australians
dont try and hold the moral high ground here...
just consider the fact that your govt just apologized officially for mistreating, disrespecting and ostracizing the local indigenous aboriginal population...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/02/12/australia.aborgines/
it sooooo looong for an apology???
atleast we indians have the guts, the temperament and virtue to call a spade a spade...
dont go throwing stones at other’s peoples homes when yours is a glass house!!!
:)
# subspecies: (biology) a taxonomic group that is a division of a species; usually arises as a consequence of geographical isolation within a species
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
# The term race describes an ethnic group, tribe, or other set of individuals descended from a common ancestor. It commonly serves to distinguish between populations or groups of people based on different sets of characteristics. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race
# (definition from White Power website): A race is defined as a group of individuals sharing common genetic attributes which determine that group’s physical appearance and, more controversially, their cognitive abilities.
www.uihome.uidaho.edu/default.aspx
definitions of racism from the web
# The belief that one ’racial group’ is inferior to another and the practices of the dominant group to maintain the inferior position of the dominated group. Often defined as a combination of power, prejudice and discrimination.
www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/ref/gloss/glossary.html
# The doctrine that race is the basic determinant of human abilities and that, therefore, the various racial groups constitute a hierarchy in which one group is properly regarded as superior to others. Racism has also been defined using the following formula: Power+Prejudice=Racism. ...
www.unk.edu/offices/aaeo/index.php
# Racism is prejudice or discrimination based on the belief that race is the primary factor determining human traits and abilities. Racism includes the belief that genetic or inherited differences produce the inherent superiority or inferiority of one race over another. ...
www.adl.org/children_holocaust/more_resources.asp
# refers to beliefs, practices, and institutions that negatively discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed race. ...
www.wacklepedia.com/r/ra/racism.html
# The stigmatising of difference along the lines of ‘racial’ characteristics in order to justify advantage or abuse of power, whether economic, political, cultural or psychological.
freespace.virgin.net/brendan.richards/glossary/glossary.htm
@sumit...
decide for yourself what it is...
cows come in black too!!!
they come in all the colours...and that in effect describes the mixture of colours you find in indian people too...someone can be as dark as people from africa or in the northern rreeeaches as fair as from some western country...
it’s a symbolic ritual with respect and reference to religious scriptures...wherein many asuras or demons had buffalo heads...
so please get your facts right before commenting on religion and rituals...
hope u r not killed by ur fellow indians. if u r dark u run double the risk now.
and wot do u suffer from???
y have u put up film actors in ur profyl pics rather than ur own???
rather than the author u ppl suffer from more inferiority complexes...hahahah
Also, I agree that it is a part of racism and that doesn’t mean that the author is calling every other Indian ’a racist’...
Seems thats what you all call ’nationalism’ and I would ask you all to wake up from your slumber...
read again....the man dint try to get into the restaurant in tatters but in slippers...and what he has highlighted here is how we differ between the outsiders and indians...
@vivek & others- So you all have found new names for this black & white issue.
Well, you see, it doesn’t matter whether you call this a social problem or inferiority complex;people know it as racism...and that’s what matters.
u said above–we can’t take the fair-dark debate as racism...Ok...
but what you call the experiences of author about the ”tudy facility for students by a Foreign Embassy in Kolkata”...To repeat the authors words, the Indians were searched while the whites weren’t ...Why? What else do you call it? Don’t say its our tradition of ’Atithi devo bhava’
i cant call it racism bcoz i feel that all indians belong to the same race...but all indians dont think like that...:D
and we cant discount the fact that the 2 major races historically have been the indo-aryans(they migrated from europe and western asia) and the dravidians(remotely related to aborigines of australia)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_groups_of_India#William_Crooke_.281907.29
and so the black and white debate...
it’s been following from british times...the discrimination...it was them doing it to us then...now it’s us doing it to our own...
it’s a given, that if you are of a darker complexion you are supposed from the economically weaker sections...take a look at all the poor people around you...
you’ll see the fairer people in a minority..
and it’s been proven in various studies that being fair and/or good looking gives you an upper hand in job interviews...
@nightcrawler
well, as i see it...just take a look here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_groups_of_India#Census_of_Modern_India
and i quote it for you...
”Census of Modern India
Main article: Demographics of India
India’s population is not divided into various ”races” today. The concept of ”race” itself has been strongly disputed, many scientists agreeing that the human being can not be usefully divided into various ”sub-groups” according to biological factors. This concept has widely been replaced by ”ethnic groups,” which take into account cultural traits (language, religion, customs, etc.).”
Was there racism here before the westerners came here???? NO!
Didn’t the British scorn us for our dark skin? OR were WE racists and taunted them for being white-skinned?
Don’t get disheartened by all these stupid criticisms. Just remember the lines from the movie GURU- when people begin to criticize you, then you know that you are doing something good.
Can i ask you just one thing...how can we say that you Sumit are not hiding your identity...Your name could be anything, this could be your pet name, are your ready to reveal your identity, your address, phone numbers and email id’s over here, so that one can confirm your identity..?
What proof can you have that you are you...stop giving stupid reasons! You don’t believe the Kolkatta incident, fine that’s simply up to you but thats not reason enough to doubt anyone...
Rhapsody might be termed as a good citizen reporter and I have read many stories by him but I never believed on that stories, This is new media you can write anything and report anything, there is open space for you but that doesn't mean you start reporting anything without evidence and with hiding your real name, this is not accepted and not goos for the development of NEW MEDIA.
Rhapsody got no. of comments on such poor writing just because he has written it on Instablogs otherwise he does not deserve single attention on this story - 'the best example of yellow journalism'.
Why are u believing on Kolkata incident? Have you read about in any newspaper? have you seen the byte of victim in any news channel? Are you there at the time of incident. Don't act like a fool. Without evidence, you shouldn't believe on such reporting and from the guy who is hiding his identity. Without any evidence, the story might be called as his own opinion not the fact citizen reporting needs fact.
You wanted to make aboriginals, red indians etc. more white than you...
You wanted to make aboriginals, red indians etc. more white than you...& Aussies after all are deported scum of England. You forefathers threw you out...pommies!
And here the Indians ( Sumit and I, it seems) are having an argument which can be sorted out...Read the Argumentative Indian by Amartya Sen...but then reading was never the forte of Aussies!
fine, done...in fact will follow this up at a later stage...Complaints, Sumit, from experience, do not work...I mentioned that too in the post...
Now to those on the right: did u see how civilized men talk? Incidentally, Why don’t u guys on the right speak to your darker brethren and see what they have to say...& for all the good that you profess...not one of you wanted to bring peace to us even in this discussion...that reveals your true colors...just a bunch of cheap gossip mongers and I stick to what I said earlier...you guys messed the world first and then blame everyone. Each and every conflict which is carrying on everywhere, go see, you will see a white man involved....like all you can do is to enjoy when others fight.
Firstly, lemme tell you that I have read he article and haven’t jumped in the debate on seeing SRK pic...
Secondly, I second Swati on your question about authors identity.
Thirdly, if you think New Media is so disgusting and fake, why are you here?
4)”there is open space for you but that doesn’t mean you start reporting anything without evidence and with hiding your real name, this is not accepted and not goos for the development of NEW MEDIA.” did you say the same when he reported of Naxalites? and also...thats just what we call Citizen Media, no one is a fool to come up with such a write up just for the sake of fun!!!
5)you call this poor write-up than thats your attitude towards truth!
6)You think its a poor story and ’he does not deserve single attention on this story’...please drop in at his blog(http://dailylight.wordpress.com/) and see he has got comments over there as well.
7) why are we believing this? In my town, many small incidents happen, even bigger ones, they don’t find any space even in the local editions of daily newspapers. and by this do you mean that anything that doesn’t find their way in newspaper columns never happen?
8) I being a blogger(http://librinme.blogspot.com/) had took this debate up on my blog as well and here are a few opinions both from the authors and my blog—
I was more shocked reading the responses than the post. Seriously! I agree with the author on many things, that Indians ARE racist in there own ways, or else how do you explain cast-ism thats more prevalent than ever.
// I agree on the fair, slim and beautiful brides –> ask me about it! My parents do the hopping on matrimonial sites in hopes for finding that gr8 guy! And once i did read.. and I go shucks!
// I agree that fair skinned are treated better than anyone else.
// But I didn’t knw about TAJ! I guess you are treated well when you r with firang! I guess I have the experience of that at least!
**We equate beauty with skin-color.
correct .. hw else do you think, fair actresses are in larger than dusky or even dark ones?!
But as I am dark skinned! I think my color is the best! anewayzz! I dnt identify with the author, because luckily for me I have been saved from such chauvinists and hypocrites! But I acknowledge the fact it has happened !
—Veens(a blogger)
Be nice to whites, they need you to rediscover their humanity. ~Desmond Tutu
How does it feel ?
Racism u see :D
Racism is oMnipotent!
The biggest prevalent disease,
Wait for some more time :D
i’m sure it would be more dangerous than AIDS.
It’s one of the biggest gift that our ”so called” developed society has given to us.
right from Skin colour to castes !
it is everywhere and the extent of penetration is so much that it looks normal to everyone....
I have a couple of Beautiful Quotes which illustrate the same.
”The one place where a man ought to get a square deal is in a courtroom, be he any color of the rainbow, but people have a way of carrying their resentments right into a jury box. As you grow older, you’ll see white men cheat black men every day of your life, but let me tell you something and don’t you forget it - whenever a white man does that to a black man, no matter who he is, how rich he is, or how fine a family he comes from, that white man is trash.” ~Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird
I look at an ant and I see myself: a native South African, endowed by nature with a strength much greater than my size so I might cope with the weight of a racism that crushes my spirit. Miyomoto Musashi
–Gurpreet(a blogger)
You should have been prepared for that. It should not come as a surprise because whether we concede or not, its true that there had always been discrimination in our country in one form or other and we never accept truth that is against us.
Did I say Hypocrisy?
–anand(blogger)
Disturbed person? Why? This is an issue that people need to be aware about AND think about. This is an attitude that is being passed on from generation to generation. Fair skin has always been equated with beauty. Hence, it is something that we readily accept and never challenge. It is called internalized racism. If we do not raise this issue to the new generations, how will times change? Yes, you might be one of the few who is starting to do that, but someone has to begin somewhere!
–Solitaire( blogger)
I come from a small town… and hasn’t faced much of this as have always been with parents… but my recent visit from India was different, we had gone to Bombay for some shopping… and thats what I noticed there too… you felt like as if you are a terrorist. The freaking mall people check your bags and everything… while the firangis are as if God sent.
Just enter easily without security check! When I talked it out… my acquired accent came across…. and they were like sorry Ma’am but… to be honest… It makes me sad. wearing a salwaar kameez with your flip-flops makes you a desi… while …the capris with that summer top can make you a completely different person.
Uugh! Thats all I have to say to this.
-Neetal
Lastly, most of us have been blogging with not our real names but no one questions our identities, neither do we start calling people names like morons or worms even if the issue is debatable to a great extent...
A very angry man came to visit him. & hurled abuses at the Buddha. The Buddha smiled and said ”Young man, if you brought a gift and the person for whom you brought the gift did not accept it, whose wud it be?”
& sometimes Sunit media conglomerates would not allow one to give specifics...adios, off to a long journey! :-)
A very angry man came to visit him. & hurled abuses at the Buddha. The Buddha smiled and said ”Young man, if you brought a gift and the person for whom you brought the gift did not accept it, whose wud it be?”
& sometimes Sunit media conglomerates would not allow one to give specifics...adios, off on a long journey! :-)
Woah! You have pin-pointed everything about others, authors identity, yellow journalism, this, that, blah blah blah...You ask about one’s credibility then you mark difference b/w CJ and bloggers, you refer to new media as ’fake’ and you ready to fight it out to your wits...Seems you have a question for everything but answer for none!
I’ll tell you what you have forgotten...and that’s how to take a debate in a good spirit without using abusive language...In case you have forgotten ,let me put this up for you
”what skin color r u, descendant of a long lost earthworm? u deserve a good hiding for writing this poo-yellow shit. instablogs must investigate his origin. I AM SERIOUS MAN!
looks like a p.w. botha worm planted in india.”
Anyways, seems you want all that attention and your criterion for that includes abuse and questioning without any reasoning. Adios! I am off this debate!
i said u can be right to some extent that depends how much u travelled india
alltourists from bangal , gujrat, or southindia usually come to northen india where people r of fair complexion but the regards and respect touring people grt is aprriciable. so i suggest you to visit the great and diversified india so that you can know the other side. the point you raised is quite appriciable, but the people from abroad in this discussion are showing there racist nature toward our nation so u’r point is very much suitable for them. and you all people from abroad please keep a litle bit control on your language
i have question for you please let me know where you find racism in shimla i am also a localite. i never found.
Local Opinions (79)
you can be right to some extent but it is not always right.
it is human nature
I would say a very fair post...and no doubts it is nothing but the truth...
Pray then, what is racism?
& unless people like you protest, things will be like that...it is not an Indian only phenomena...
The reason why I use the pseudonym is because I choose to do so , you wud never know who I really am had I simply used a name like Prasad...by my name I want to protest the death of the net as a free place ...
the fair, the beautiful, the suave who are the rich and powerful
the ugly, dirty, the illiterate and the poor, powerless...
Unless we take stock of our own we can never change our nation’s lot...because we are a great nation amongst the fools there are wise men who can stomach criticism. Instead of criticizing others, we have to help ourselves...
The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines racism as a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race, and that it is also the prejudice based on such a belief.
The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as 'the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate.'
According to UN International Conventions, the term 'racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.'
Racism has existed throughout human history. It may be defined as the hatred of one person by another -- or the belief that another person is less than human -- because of skin color, language, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person. It has influenced wars, slavery, the formation of nations, and legal codes.
Don't apply the meaning of black and skin colour in western sociological context in our Indian context because here there is no place of hatred due to skin colour but caste. Hatred due to caste exists but hatred due to skin colour doesn't exist. So, don't write such useless things in Indian context. Are you trying to become India TV on Internet? If yes then its ok, you are free to write anything because no one would take you seriously.
Man, you are all worked up with all those references...but you missed the only point relevant...definitions are end products of human phenomena...language is fluid...so what you quoted is what at a certain point of time was the definition according to a group of Western lexicographers...but instead of focussing on one word, tell me do not women get tortured for giving birth to dark babies? I know a guy, about 13, who is not loved by his parents simply because he is dark, rather his sibling 10, is loved for the fairness. Due to the nature of my profession I get to hear a lot of these sad stories. ( Oh I forgot to tell you to refer to Jesperson, Walter Ong etc.) & who buys these products? Why do people want to be fair?
His mother was busy on his mobile phone and the American and the Indian boy were chatting interesting things and I was the single audience there. The American was a professional photographer and had come to India to visit north Indian temples and Himalayan region. He was visible lookin very much impressed with Indian culture and traditions. He was praising India, Indian people, Indian cities every thing.
At the same time, the young boy, whose father was NRI living in New York, was looking excited because he was going to take International flight to New York for the first time.
During the discussion, the boy was surprisingly abusing Indian people, talking badly about Indian roads, poverty and praising US cities culture. What we (me and the American guy) felt that the boy hated India and loved US. Finally the irritated American asked the boy in strong words - "WHO TOLD YOU ALL THESE STUPID THINGS , DON'T YOU HAVE RESPECT FOR YOUR OWN COUNTRY?" The boy answered - 'My father'. The American literally shouted - "YOU FATHER IS A BIG BULL-SHIT AND YOU ARE BULL-SHIT IN MAKING".
We Indians more abuse than love our Indianness thats what you are doing here by linking the fair-dark discussion in Indian context with RACISM... I won't say anything now.
as for what foreigners think of us does not matter, for they are unimportant...
as for what foreigners think of us does not matter, for they are unimportant...
& again I have mentioned only those of us in specific situations...
a) I ask the question, not provide an answer...I think we are partly racist, being casteist et al...
b) I love my people and being an Indian and feel hurt when I read about that lady at the Taj, be searched like a thief and when I read of a dusky woman writing to know how to be fair
c) My country is great and I care hoots for whether racism exists elsewhere, whether class structures exist elsewhere...we can reform and change ourselves...we can...not like where Prince comes from...
in the US people have to sue...here the awakening can come from within...
again if I have hurt anyone, it is only to show my concern for my own country and not to give a chance to foreigners to deride us...adios on this post
Lastly, i stand abashed...
looks like a p.w. botha worm planted in india.
@Rhapsodysinger-Well if you write the truth, you have to face a lot of criticism. People do not like horrifying truths, it’s human nature...not a good one though.
@manishkumar- The picture just tells we Indians cannot face the fact that we are BLACK. Can’t you understand even that, fat-head????
For Sumit- I believe all your definitions are copied from wikipedia, but may be you didn’t have the time to read the whole article. So i would advise you to pay attention to the first few lines written over there- ”Racism has many definitions, the most common and widely accepted being that members of one race consider themselves intrinsically superior to members of other races.”
The story you wrote about that American photographer may be true,but there’s one thing i should add. foreigners see India from one perspective:they live in luxurious hotels, travel by car and bla bla.They don’t have to face water crisis or power cuts or any of the millions of problems that an average Indian has to deal with.You can’t deny this.And Westerners would like us to be happy the way we are, so that we can never rise above them.
Finally i would say, racism is thriving in India(more and more demand for cosmetics like fair n lovely proves that) because of people like you Sumit.You would believe your country to be the best rather than take the trouble to identify the problems and solve them so that one day India really becomes the best. In this sense, Rhapsodysinger proves that he is a true patriot.
I have lived all my life in India. There is castism, there is communalism, but there is no racism. Such writing is unacceptable as it is malicious and false. BTW is the writer an Indian?
Australians mistreated aboriginals, the famed separation controversies...US the red indians and need I say more so don’t throw dirt on us...I have faith in my own people that those of us who tend to feel superior will change but as far as u guys on the right you need law suits etc. to change...
@swati
I myself faced these discriminations...not a word untrue...
Australians mistreated aboriginals, the famed separation controversies...US the red Indians and need I say more so don’t throw dirt on us...I have faith in my own people that those of us who tend to feel superior will change but as far as u guys on the right you need law suits etc. to change...
@swati
I myself faced these discriminations...not a word untrue...
close your eyes to truth...We all indians are so proud to be indians that we won’t even differentiate b/w good and bad just for the sake of saving our reputation as Indians...
I ask you all, you have called the author moron and I don’t know what, what...but is this the way you treat writers who write nothing but the truth...Just like Taslima was condemned in her own country...
Then why do we have all newspaper columns actually demanding ’FAIR’ Brides..maybe for you this isn’t racism, for you all this is just a beauty standard but even I call that racism! I am sure each one of us have faced it at one time or the another but i think you all are too coward to accept that and admit that the racist was none other than someone from your Indian brotherhood....
@ The author...
I am glad you took this up...Bravo!!!Let them condemn you, but remember where’re always a few who think, take action and can speak the truth...you are one of them.Kudos!
But on the other hand as I said those on the right are unimportant for they are throwing dirt...when they have so much to hide...
But all i say and believe is that we need to introspect...
what rhapsody singer let us knwo is nothing but the truth...
it’s not a race problem but a social problem...fuelled by skin colour, and money...
the basic funda is that indians distinguish people by how presentable they look...so if you are a dark skinned person you already are at -1...
and if you are not wering expensive looking clothes...thr goes your social reputation down the drain...
@sanyog
dude, i m a southie too...though everyone doesn’t advertise for fair gals...it’s taken as a minus or plus depending on the skin colour of the gal evryone...
if the gal is fair they r ready to cmpromise on the dowry reqs..and if shez dark then the askin rate goes up...
@Australians
dont try and hold the moral high ground here...
just consider the fact that your govt just apologized officially for mistreating, disrespecting and ostracizing the local indigenous aboriginal population...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/02/12/australia.aborgines/
it sooooo looong for an apology???
atleast we indians have the guts, the temperament and virtue to call a spade a spade...
dont go throwing stones at other’s peoples homes when yours is a glass house!!!
:)
# subspecies: (biology) a taxonomic group that is a division of a species; usually arises as a consequence of geographical isolation within a species
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
# The term race describes an ethnic group, tribe, or other set of individuals descended from a common ancestor. It commonly serves to distinguish between populations or groups of people based on different sets of characteristics. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race
# (definition from White Power website): A race is defined as a group of individuals sharing common genetic attributes which determine that group’s physical appearance and, more controversially, their cognitive abilities.
www.uihome.uidaho.edu/default.aspx
definitions of racism from the web
# The belief that one ’racial group’ is inferior to another and the practices of the dominant group to maintain the inferior position of the dominated group. Often defined as a combination of power, prejudice and discrimination.
www.bl.uk/learning/histcitizen/voices/ref/gloss/glossary.html
# The doctrine that race is the basic determinant of human abilities and that, therefore, the various racial groups constitute a hierarchy in which one group is properly regarded as superior to others. Racism has also been defined using the following formula: Power+Prejudice=Racism. ...
www.unk.edu/offices/aaeo/index.php
# Racism is prejudice or discrimination based on the belief that race is the primary factor determining human traits and abilities. Racism includes the belief that genetic or inherited differences produce the inherent superiority or inferiority of one race over another. ...
www.adl.org/children_holocaust/more_resources.asp
# refers to beliefs, practices, and institutions that negatively discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed race. ...
www.wacklepedia.com/r/ra/racism.html
# The stigmatising of difference along the lines of ‘racial’ characteristics in order to justify advantage or abuse of power, whether economic, political, cultural or psychological.
freespace.virgin.net/brendan.richards/glossary/glossary.htm
@sumit...
decide for yourself what it is...
cows come in black too!!!
they come in all the colours...and that in effect describes the mixture of colours you find in indian people too...someone can be as dark as people from africa or in the northern rreeeaches as fair as from some western country...
it’s a symbolic ritual with respect and reference to religious scriptures...wherein many asuras or demons had buffalo heads...
so please get your facts right before commenting on religion and rituals...
and wot do u suffer from???
y have u put up film actors in ur profyl pics rather than ur own???
rather than the author u ppl suffer from more inferiority complexes...hahahah
Also, I agree that it is a part of racism and that doesn’t mean that the author is calling every other Indian ’a racist’...
Seems thats what you all call ’nationalism’ and I would ask you all to wake up from your slumber...
read again....the man dint try to get into the restaurant in tatters but in slippers...and what he has highlighted here is how we differ between the outsiders and indians...
@vivek & others- So you all have found new names for this black & white issue.
Well, you see, it doesn’t matter whether you call this a social problem or inferiority complex;people know it as racism...and that’s what matters.
u said above–we can’t take the fair-dark debate as racism...Ok...
but what you call the experiences of author about the ”tudy facility for students by a Foreign Embassy in Kolkata”...To repeat the authors words, the Indians were searched while the whites weren’t ...Why? What else do you call it? Don’t say its our tradition of ’Atithi devo bhava’
i cant call it racism bcoz i feel that all indians belong to the same race...but all indians dont think like that...:D
and we cant discount the fact that the 2 major races historically have been the indo-aryans(they migrated from europe and western asia) and the dravidians(remotely related to aborigines of australia)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_groups_of_India#William_Crooke_.281907.29
and so the black and white debate...
it’s been following from british times...the discrimination...it was them doing it to us then...now it’s us doing it to our own...
it’s a given, that if you are of a darker complexion you are supposed from the economically weaker sections...take a look at all the poor people around you...
you’ll see the fairer people in a minority..
and it’s been proven in various studies that being fair and/or good looking gives you an upper hand in job interviews...
@nightcrawler
well, as i see it...just take a look here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_groups_of_India#Census_of_Modern_India
and i quote it for you...
”Census of Modern India
Main article: Demographics of India
India’s population is not divided into various ”races” today. The concept of ”race” itself has been strongly disputed, many scientists agreeing that the human being can not be usefully divided into various ”sub-groups” according to biological factors. This concept has widely been replaced by ”ethnic groups,” which take into account cultural traits (language, religion, customs, etc.).”
Was there racism here before the westerners came here???? NO!
Didn’t the British scorn us for our dark skin? OR were WE racists and taunted them for being white-skinned?
Don’t get disheartened by all these stupid criticisms. Just remember the lines from the movie GURU- when people begin to criticize you, then you know that you are doing something good.
Can i ask you just one thing...how can we say that you Sumit are not hiding your identity...Your name could be anything, this could be your pet name, are your ready to reveal your identity, your address, phone numbers and email id’s over here, so that one can confirm your identity..?
What proof can you have that you are you...stop giving stupid reasons! You don’t believe the Kolkatta incident, fine that’s simply up to you but thats not reason enough to doubt anyone...
Rhapsody might be termed as a good citizen reporter and I have read many stories by him but I never believed on that stories, This is new media you can write anything and report anything, there is open space for you but that doesn't mean you start reporting anything without evidence and with hiding your real name, this is not accepted and not goos for the development of NEW MEDIA.
Rhapsody got no. of comments on such poor writing just because he has written it on Instablogs otherwise he does not deserve single attention on this story - 'the best example of yellow journalism'.
Why are u believing on Kolkata incident? Have you read about in any newspaper? have you seen the byte of victim in any news channel? Are you there at the time of incident. Don't act like a fool. Without evidence, you shouldn't believe on such reporting and from the guy who is hiding his identity. Without any evidence, the story might be called as his own opinion not the fact citizen reporting needs fact.
You wanted to make aboriginals, red indians etc. more white than you...
You wanted to make aboriginals, red indians etc. more white than you...& Aussies after all are deported scum of England. You forefathers threw you out...pommies!
And here the Indians ( Sumit and I, it seems) are having an argument which can be sorted out...Read the Argumentative Indian by Amartya Sen...but then reading was never the forte of Aussies!
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you can be right to some extent but it is not always right.
it is human nature